No.731[Reply]
I'm not a guy who listens to much rock but I've been trying to get into it more. But Rock culture feels like its the opposite of what it sells itself as. Its conservative, old, and non-threatening.
Every musical genre has a culture built up around it. Hard bop fans have a style and attitude that's different from fans of classical. Rock culture's attitude is youth rebellion and sticking it to authority. But rock fandom seems really conservative (not political). You have to respect the canon, bow to tradition, and play by strict genre conventions. Disrespecting famous rock acts isn't tolerated, unless those bands are considered "too mainstream." Sure, there's room for discussion and contrarian opinions, but rock fans will get very mad at you if you disagree with their high taste, especially classic rock and metal fans. They also seem to really like formulaic stuff that mimics the past. They'll have a bunch of bands they like (depends on sub genre they are into) and want a modern band that mimics that, like another Metallica 2.0 or whatever they happen to like. And the modern day band has to look and sound just like that fossil from 1971. Virtually all popular rock bands are really old too. Like decades old.
Last thing, the element of rebellion feels fake or at least staged for dramatic effect rather than something genuine although there are exceptions to this. Its not like rock bands are espousing ideas and values that are radically at odds with consumer society, unless they are some fringe N*zi band or black metal types. So what are people rebelling against? If you really were a rebel you wouldn't get on MTV, get radio air time, or be allowed on streaming platforms. You'd be black listed. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll aren't rebellious anymore and are more or less acceptable in mainstream society. You're not breaking any rules.
3 posts omitted. Click reply to view. No.754
>>731I disagree. Rock itself doesn’t seem to have an old guard of fans who ferociously defend the integrity of the genre from the standpoint of someone emotionally and culturally invested in it the way a crust punk or metal head defends their subculture. It’s usually from the standpoint of some boomer with massively underdeveloped tastes who just wants to hear what they grew up listening to, not because of any sincere dogmatism. These problems are honestly more pronounced within extreme subgenres such as death metal, black metal, and grind, where people are massively critical of anything that experiments or tries to break the formula.
It is funny though how different genres perceive this issue. You talk to young kids into rap and they openly think old rap and hip-hop is gay wwwwww. But I do think with the internet a lot of people are more open to experimenting with styles in rock and it seems like indie rock, emo, and shoegazeis having a major resurgence due to TikTok trends (not a good thing - but at least that dogmatism is gone).
No.771
Punk and metal are built on a facade. Punk is supposed to be about individuality, raging against the machine, and DIY ethos etc. but they all refer back to the same sonic template (quick tempo, 4/4 beat, largely dyads rather than full traditional chords, standardized structure -verse, chorus-, NO solos) and they all dress the same and sing about the same stuff. The fans of this music keep consuming it, like gooners addicted to their favorite brand of porn. There is in actuality virtually no difference from one punk band to the next, like porn videos they are all structurally identical. You could loose one song and it wouldn't make a difference because there are a thousand more identical to it.
I ask myself, what kind of society produces this type of music? You can learn a great deal about a society from the music it produces and consumes. Punk and metal are created and consumed, mostly, in the First World, in societies that are totally totalitarian, all of them having a history of genocide, where basic rights exist only on paper and the population is reduced to mindless consumers. So give the masses their games and their bread. That's what punk rock is. Its a kind of staged rebellion, like pro wrestling. You go and get all that energy out, you think you're the rebel, and you go back to being a patient tool of the system.
Rock music is just a form of social control. Just like reality TV or ads or crappy big budget Hollywood movies. I don't mean nefarious propaganda of some elite lizard cult etc. I mean its a cultural institution that positively reinforces the social system.
No.772
I'll spare you the deep dive on "classic rock" of the 50s/60s for now. The short version is it got produced as the sound track for "youth rebellion" for a reason.
I can sum up modern Rock (well semi-modern) with something I witnessed a few years ago. I was asked if I wanted to go to a Rage Against the Machine show back during the time when the world went crazy and everyone was "locked down". I decided not to attend because they expected you to show proof you'd taking an experimental drug to come inside. Which I had not since I don't go to doctors at all.
A friend of mind went and sent me video from the concert. Which he'd recorded on his cell phone so I don't understand why he went at all if he wasn't going to watch the show in the first place. But what I found amusing was the following;
This massive crowd of people. Every last one of them showed papers to get in and most probably didn't falsify them. So they took an injection to get in. Since I know many of them only got it so they could escape "lock down" and see their favorite band.
The video my friend sent me was this massive crowd of people that got injections and showed papers to get into the concert chanting;
>Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.
People like the idea of being a rebel but most of them will never actually do it.
No.774
There's a conspiracy that punk was just marketing to sell clothes, or at least the Sex Pistols were, and the whole reason they couldn't play instruments wasn't artistic rebellion, they literally picked random people to work these bands simply because of their persona and stage presence. Few could actually play their instruments. So all of the punk bands and culture that have come afterwards are larping after a real thing that never existed.
No.775
>>774This is true of most mainstream genres since about the 1960s. Why bother looking for people with artistic talent when you can simply promote someone with the right look? It helps keep them under your thumb. Since they can be exposed as frauds at any time.
There was an actual punk movement at one point. A counter-counter culture raging against the hair bands and stuff like the hippie bands that came before. But it was quickly brought into the fold like everything else has over the years. Same is true of rap music and alt-rock of the late 80s-mid 90s as well of course.
The vast majority of popular acts have no talent at all.