Tuned in to Retro Anime / Manga!

>>3295
This a scan of a 16mm film reel, so the colors are faded.

Good post. Also they could make vibrant colors in digital too, wouldn't be 1:1 like old anime, but could be very close. They don't do it because it would require work and they're mediocre drones.

>>3295
16mm film was used as a cost cutting method for anime, and the downside is that it's known for being grainy. The graininess depends on the quality of film stock, the lens, and so forth.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2017-03-15/.113402

35mm was used for higher productions like high budget OVA, films, or openings. If you ever notice how an old show has a great looking sharp OP and then the rest of the show didn't look as good? That's why.

Everyone's favorite UY is a 16mm tv production, and it has an excelled BD release. Even 16mm film scans look gorgeous, and 35mm scans are even better.

>>3298
>Grainy
Not a downside. It gives texture to the shows.
>>3299
Literally never happened to me. Most old shows had both great OPs and EDs and normal animation.

>>3301
35mm is a large film stock, used for higher budget productions. Most productions will use 16mm for the majority of the project. Bigger film stock means a greater potential for a high quality image with fine details more visible. In the case of anime, many shows would use 16mm for the glut of the runtime, but would upgrade to 35mm for the OP or ED. I heard Cardcaptor Sakura was 35mm for some reason. I don't have a list of 35mm anime tv series.

Turn A and Cardcaptor are late cel era high budget productions, shot on 35mm film. These are the exceptions rather than the rule.

>>3301
Grain adds texture, sure, but 16mm low quality film stock can be exceptionally grainy. The UY BD can be a bit distracting at times.

>>3295
I always found it funny early digipaint cartoons don't look as bad as lot of early digipaint anime but I guess it's cause they did it first, some 80's Hanna-Barbera was digipaint. I think many n problem with digipaint is less a problem with the tool and more a problem with the direction and use.

>>3301
>For the telecine process of transferring the Evangelion TV series from the original negatives, which were produced in 16mm film, a method called wet gate telecine was chosen instead of dry gate telecine, which is the current mainstream method. This method was chosen, because the priority was placed on efficiently removing scratches on the film, minimizing the shaking of the image when the 16mm film is run through telecine, and on the overall improvement in quality rather than improving the sharpness of details. Pin registration was used to reduce the shaking of the image, which occurs due to this being a film product. By firmly stabilizing the film, the shaking was visibly reduced for all to see. On the other hand, the TV opening and ending are on 35mm film, which are clear and of high resolution, unlike the TV episodes. Thus, the priority was to bring out the colors, and the dry gate telecine method was used. Furthermore, the recording was done in HD (high definition).

Eva was 16mm show with 35mm OP/ED.

It sucks that so many new releases of older anime filter all the grain out and this, not even rarely, results in it looking weird. I'm glad that the Tokimeki Tonight remaster kept the grain. I think Eva did as well, and you occasionally get others but it's more the rule to run them through a grain filter. At least with remasters of older (like 1920s) live action movies, if they go through the process of trying to remove damage to the film they might actually do it mostly by hand instead of just running it through some shitty filter. And we'll probably start getting AI based filters for doing that to anime.

>>3312
It's completely unavoidable: it's 16mm very grainy film stock, giving the entire image a slight fuzz. You can't filter that out without also losing image quality and details.

>>3312
How they """""filter"""" this anyway? AI upscaling? Because I don't think there's any other way to filter a literal physical detail on the image other than that. Really makes my blood boil that their only work is to leave things as they're, and they fuck it up anyway.

>>3315
They've been doing grain filtering since before AI became the hot new thing but I'm sure there are already AI versions of these tools. I think the point is to remove the part of the image that makes it look like grain looks while replacing it with colors to make the image look more or less right. I don't know exactly how it works but possibly similarly to how some antialiasing solutions work in games. Sometimes it looks fine, other times it completely destroys the image, but I'd prefer they not even risk it, especially on series like Cardcaptor Sakura that was on 35mm film. Though imo the CCS 4k remaster doesn't look bad.

>>3316
her eyes basically change color.

>>3295
Not to mention the use of light monitors. No replacement for them has appeared in the digital era and no studio has bothered to replicating such a cool effect.

>>3338
The Dai no Daibouken and Yaiba remakes both try to emulate this, its not the same obviously but you could argue its better this way because that effect when used poorly was awful.

I think its taken 25+ years but digital is better than cel now, at least for TV and ONA productions. I don't think movies have really matched the heights of the past.

>>3339
I agree, especially with ONAs seemingly becoming the new OVA production medium. Lupin Zero is so far the best ONA series yet. Regarding movies, I think Redline was the only movie production on the likes of CEL works like Angel's Egg or Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust in terms of visual and animation quality. It's a shame it flopped due to poor timing.

Redline is good but it was made 10 years ago. Anime on average is very trashy.

>>3338
Fire Force got pretty close to replicating this effect.
I'd be interested in knowing what software David Pro. used to achieve this.

>>3368
Doesn't nearly the entire industry use a combination of RETAS Studio, CSP, and Maya?

>>3338
This is what I miss the most. Underlighting effects look so good.

>>3338
Yes, that too. i forget its' even a thing when it's not pure white light, but they also used it for all sorts of colored lights especially the sun. It's a really cool effect.

>>3368
They're trying, and making improvements but it's not quite the same. it's quite dull and lacks the brightness.

>>3303
>I heard Cardcaptor Sakura was 35mm for some reason.

For the same reason they poured that much budget into a girl's anime. I remember hearing CCS was literally the entire team from Ninja Scroll getting the same budget they'd get to do a movie for a TV anime, which is why the CCS animation is so damn lush.

>>3436
It's because CLAMP is a company composed of a handful of female artist who have complete control over their projects. They own the rights to their own series, they have control over all the royalties, they can spend lavishly on whatever they want and there isnt a single shareholder-kun to stop them.

>>3447
I haven't actually watched the other anime made of their manga but none of them have anywhere near as good a reputation as CCS and from what I've heard of them, some of them aren't even that good. So it's clearly not just Clamp having control, otherwise there wouldn't be as much of a difference between them.

Shading is underrated, too.

>>3449
Too bad that guy drawings over do to the point it looks uncanny and ugly also he comparing TV anime to OVAs and anime was flat before and has been off and on for years.

>>3450
Yeah, I largely agree with the picture but his own drawings are almost uncanny for the lack of a better word.

>>3451
Yeah I've seen his animations on Youtube, it's lot of work but they just have that look that makes them unappealing also really animated too looks surreal like Disney style animation with overly detailed anime characters. It's funny the last anime I watched Lupin The Gold Of Babylon was full on Looney Tunes though, reminded me cause he complaining about cartoons in the image but it was like watching an animated Mad Magazine strip, I enjoyed it but it didn't have much shading at all and it was a movie.

>>3448
Clamp had the resources from 11 successful manga projects and had done 3 other ovas before launching card captor sakura with almost 10+ years of industry connections. And considering they were also a group of relatively attractive women in a field dominated by lonely men… maybe they just made pretty girl faces at everyone to get good deals for their first big anime :o

Another aspect was that the 90s was the last good decade for the japanese economy. And Clamp made a ton of money during the 'good' times of the japanese economy and was able to dump an absurd amount of it into ccs. Not only that, but there were lots of experienced animation studios competing against one another due to the good economy being able to afford multiple studios existing so they were able to get 'more' for their money. Keep in mind, these were purely japanese studios with japanese employees whose profession was to make japanese anime.

Then japan slowly spiraled into a forever recession and lots of the older experienced studios shut down or consolidated. Companies started switching to digital cg to save money, and started outsourcing to south korea and china. It became harder and harder to get real japanese artists to work on real japanese anime and those that did remained in the field would often complain about long hours, low pay, and horrible deadlines which resulted in lower quality products.

>>3449
true!

>>3464
1997 was actually a bad year for Japan's economy. 1992 saw the economic bubble of the late 80s burst, and had already started causing a slow decline, and then 1997 saw the Asian financial market crash, which damaged Japan's economy even more. Even the mainstream Japanese music industry, which saw a boom when people could no longer afford houses and other big picture stuff, so would spend more on consumer goods, saw its peak right at 1998 when Sakura began to air.

NHK, Kodansha, and Sogo Vision funded Cardcaptor Sakura, not Clamp themselves. As a Kodansha manga serialized in Nakayoshi they would probably be the primary rights holders, and would be giving Clamp some royalties from any money made off of the franchise. Not that Clamp didn't have any say over how the anime went, but it's not like it was their project.

>Keep in mind, these were purely japanese studios with japanese employees whose profession was to make japanese anime.

Massive outsourcing to Asia for lower level jobs like inbetweening was already extremely common by then, Gundam Wing for example would start with layouts and rough key animation from a Japanese Studio (Dove) and then all the animation would be finished up over in Asia by their overseas subsidiaries.

>Then japan slowly spiraled into a forever recession and lots of the older experienced studios shut down or consolidated.

Like who? Sunrise, Toei, Tatsunoko, Pierrot, Deen, Ashi Pro, Madhouse, Gainax, Production IG, AIC, OLM etc, all the big established studios of the 90s persisted into the 2000s. It was more marginal studios like E&G that died out in the early 2000s.

The answer to why Cardcaptor Sakura looks as good as it does, is likely just because Madhouse gave it a good schedule and good staff. They also did X 1999 a few years earlier, which looks phenomenal as well.

>>3467
>Cont

Double checked.

>NHK, Kodansha, and Sogo Vision funded Cardcaptor Sakura, not Clamp themselves. As a Kodansha manga serialized in Nakayoshi they would probably be the primary rights holders, and would be giving Clamp some royalties from any money made off of the franchise. Not that Clamp didn't have any say over how the anime went, but it's not like it was their project.

Looks like Clamp actually did contribute costume designs and screenplays for the anime. Still, I'm not finding any evidence of them being on the production committee for it.

>>3464
A little off topic but kinda wanted to clarify a few things.
>Last good decade
The economy is still pretty high all things considered, not exactly bubble era tier but still in the top 5 GDP surprisingly.
>Outsourcing to other countries
That’s has been done since the 60s, the golden bat anime for instance had some work done in korea which is also why it had a following there but couldn’t say it was Japanese. Also sunrise did some stuff as well, not as much but then all those Korean bootleg knockoffs begin to make much more sense as to where they got the character designs from lol