/cel/ - Retro Anime & Manga

>>1018
Forgot to mention that he also formed the Madhouse studio so

>>1018
Love Dezaki's stuff, he's definetly my favourite director and I really want to watch a lot more of his directed shows and movies. Though, I do wonder. I really do give Dezaki a lot of praise for work he has directed but at the same time he never really MADE the work I love. I always wonder if I give him too much praise?

First thing I saw from him was Ashita no Joe back in 2018 and it was incredibly good, probably my favourite of everything he has directed. I sadly spoiled myself on the ending despite not actually knowing it on the DAY I started watching it through no fault of my own although I did search up the OST and learned of Rikishi's death which made me very sad. Even after all of this, I still very much enjoyed it until the end. Was so glad a show from the 70s could keep my attention since it was the second one I ever watched from that time period and always assumed it was just going to be boring but I was hooked from episode 1 and I honestly think it was how it was directed. I recently got a friend into it after pestering him for two years or so and he loved it too, felt good after he found Season 1 to be very boring.

I watched Rose of Versailles around 6 months after that which was equally as good, even if it took me multiple weeks to watch 3 episodes. I'll always remember spending one day watching the final 9 episodes straight because it was just so good. I'm really glad I didn't give up on this one because I was just not feeling it until the 4th episode where young Antoinette had to deal with the "prostitute" wife and it became VERY interesting. Some fantastic shots in this one as well (pic related is so lovely). I really did feel for the characters and I really did love how it ended even if it was somewhat sad. I wonder if that 50th anniversary movie will be good?

A year and a half after that was Takarajima and having never read Treasure Island I was pleasantly surprised with it. A true adventure that I just adored right from the beginning, I also felt like Jim when you learnt the real nature of Long John Silver which I had somehow never been spoiled on. I was shocked at how Grey's story came to an end as well. He was my favourite character from the second he decided to stick with the "good" guys during the mutiny and seeing him die in one of the many Irish revolutionary wars just felt so sad, especially when that didn't happen in the book from what I looked up. I remember telling my mother about this one as well as she's Irish and she found it very interesting that someone in Japan decided to change the fate of that character from the book to something like that as she imagined they wouldn't really know/care about it much.

>>1020
Then it was Oniisama E around 6 months later, which was also quite good. I remember finding it quite boring at the beginning but it really picked up as it went on. A lot of great characters and interesting ideas throughout, Mariko was my favourite and her arc was really something. Felt bad for her at the beginning when she just desperately wanted to be Nanako's friend. Rei and Kaoru were great too and I did enjoy the change the anime gave for the ending though, even if the original was much more heart wrenching. I'd say this anime has my favourite Dezaki directed shots. I also remember telling my mother about this anime because she went to an all girls rich boarding school that was similar to this as a poor girl through a scholarship and she told me it was nothing like this, a lot of the girls she knew were very kind to her and even gave her old supplies for things when they got new ones which seemed very kind.

Aim for the Ace was the last thing I saw from him that I finished which was last September. That was a mixed bag but mostly enjoyable, I found the coach to be a really great character and Hiromi too, honestly the entire show had great characters with a lot going for them and I loved some of their arcs. I did find the first season made Hiromi very bad at Tennis and then she just randomly became VERY GOOD and was able to beat Ochoufujin at the end which just felt really odd, but I'm guessing it's because the coach just knew how talented she was. I also enjoyed the sequels that were made ten years later or so, really wished they got the 1080p treatment because the art in these is stunning (although I do like the rough style of the 70s one as well). I think Midorikawa was my favourite character from the show especially in the later parts, but I really did like Hiromi and her friend Maki too. I do hope the remake of the original from the late 70s gets translated one day.

I'm currently watching Gamba's Adventure and sadly it's probably the first thing by him (Not counting directed Lupin movies) where I'm not really enjoying it. I'm not entirely sure why either, I imagine it's the very childlike and simple nature it has. Sure it's got the adventurous aspects of Treasure Island, and fun characters but overall it just has these feeling of nothing really substantial happening. I'm on Episode 14 right now and I do hope it gets better as they FINALLY approach Noroi's island.

I've been meaning to respond to this thread for weeks now even if I just described why I liked each anime over their style so enjoy this very long post, hopefully you're still around OP.

>>1020
>>1021
OP here, sorry for late response

It's true that he's never made any IPs, but I think his fame has always come from his directing style. I'd seen Cobra, Treasure Island, and Joe before I learned they shared the same director, but when I did learn it made a lot of sense.

His good stuff always has the nicest balance of attention to character and attention to setting. By that I mean his works are usually stapled by good characters and expert design/style; rather than one or the other. A lot of anime suffer from focusing either too hard on the characters or on the setting. For example, one of my problems with big budget works, like Akira, Vampire Hunter D, and Ghibli's, is that the quality of the plot/characters often trades off with the attention to visuals/setting. For example, many people crap on Castle of Cagliostro because of its take on Lupin's character (lack of character). Miyazaki has never been a master of characters, but of setting, which is why his adaptation of Lupin is known more as a standalone work than another Lupin film. Vice versa, overbearing attention to characters makes a work feel over dramatic /cheesy. For example, if there is too much dialogue/ lack of world building then a work can get stale quick. No one wants to watch a collage of reaction images put over nonstop dialogue.

Dezaki works usually have the perfect balance of well designed characters and great attention to setting. He's got a big knack for atmosphere, usually able to pull off tension, serenity, or whatever emotion he needs in creative ways. I really enjoy his use of backgrounds, especially in Joe. Sometimes he'd use psychedelic backgrounds for neurotic moments, like pic related, and the more well known detailed ones, like the ones you posted, for decisive moments.

One of his drawbacks is that his plots sometimes get ahead of themselves. As you mentioned with Ace there is some BS involving Hiromi. Similarly, in pretty much any of his works, there are moments where if you aren't drawn in well enough you notice the holes (i.e: Joe taking on 5 grown yakuza at the age of 15, Cobra dodging lasers, Hiromi getting good so quickly, etc). Part of this can probably be owned up to the fact that a lot of his works use limited animation, but it's definitely a drawback.

>>1022
>OP here, sorry for late response
No problem, I was meant to respond to your thread ages ago.

>I'd seen Cobra, Treasure Island, and Joe before I learned they shared the same director, but when I did learn it made a lot of sense.
I think I only discovered he was the director of some of my favourite shows when I watched Takarajima and that was when I really noticed how I just loved his work, and after that I wanted to see more but sadly I feel Takarajima was the peak for me.

>His good stuff always has the nicest balance of attention to character and attention to setting. By that I mean his works are usually stapled by good characters and expert design/style; rather than one or the other.
That is true, all of the work he directs have great characters and great settings, whenever I watch something he directed I just see it right from the start.

>For example, many people crap on Castle of Cagliostro because of its take on Lupin's character
I actually love Caglistro and consider it my favourite Lupin film, haha. I like to think this movie is near the end of his career where he's matured to the point of being very mellow and easygoing, I know he always is but the way he is portrayed here makes me think that way.

>He's got a big knack for atmosphere, usually able to pull off tension, serenity, or whatever emotion he needs in creative ways.
That's for sure, I'd say Rose of Versailles and Takarajima were the two that REALLY had some amazing scenes that got to me.

>I really enjoy his use of backgrounds
One of the greatest aspect of his work in my opinion, so many amazing shots that really show the beauty of his work.

>(i.e: Joe taking on 5 grown yakuza at the age of 15, Cobra dodging lasers, Hiromi getting good so quickly, etc).
Honestly, Joe taking on the Yakuza felt fine to me, I knew nothing of this kid so seeing him take on 5 guys and then have Danpei see his potential it made a lot of sense, plus Joe was fighting in an environment that sort of benefited him so he could split them up well. As for Hiromi we basically see her be pretty bad at Tennis throughout until SUDDENLY she becomes very good in the final few episodes, it just feels off.

Of the Dezaki works I’ve seen, I’d rate them as follows:

Rose of Versailles> Oniisama e…> Takarajima > Ie Naki Ko > Nightsong of Splendor > Aim For The Ace! (1979 movie) > Joe 2 > Black Jack > Golgo 13: The Professional > Space Adventure Cobra> Aim For The Ace! (TV and OVAs)> Joe 1> The Snow Queen> Golgo 13: Queen Bee> The Life of Confucius

He’s by far my favourite director. I actually know both Oniisama e and RoV frame-by-frame and love both of them religiously. I would argue that his Ikeda adaptations are his best works because Ikeda’s own melodramatic style fits Dezaki’s melodramatic style like a glove.

>>1024
For me it's, Joe 1>Cobra>Ace>Rose>Takarajima>Golgo>Joe 2> Remi>One pound gospel

>>1024
Nice list, going from my own rankings I'd say Joe 2 > Joe 1 > Takarajima > Rose of Versailles > Oniisama E > Aim for the Ace (all) > Gamba's Adventure

I'll have to take a note of some of these you've listed as well, I do want to watch more of his directed stuff.

My one problem with anime Rose of Versailles is that it keeps trying to upgrade historical figures into villains when it doesn't make sense. Robespierre in '89 was being a rando representative no one cared about and St Just was a dedicated Obnoxious Youth. The manga gets it right, it's weird the anime just kind of makes them both villains in ways that don't even make sense.

And the anime cuts out the time Napoleon showed up for no reason other than to overwhelm Oscar with his aura. That part's great.

>>1018
Only just finished Ashita no Joe 2 up maybe, a few weeks ago, and after mulling over it long enough, probably my new favourite anime ever. Can't wait to watch other Dezaki stuff. AnJ might be my gateway into enjoying more retro stuff.
Also first post on wapchan.

>>1028
>Only just finished Ashita no Joe 2 up maybe, a few weeks ago, and after mulling over it long enough, probably my new favourite anime ever.
Very nice, anon. I remember watching it years ago and loving it too, even after spoiling myself. I recently got a friend into it last year after begging him to watch it for two years and it was incredible seeing him be reluctant, to giving it a try to fucking ADORING it by the end. He watched around 5 episodes a day by the time he was on 2.

>Can't wait to watch other Dezaki stuff.
Try Rose of Versailles next. It also has a slow start but becomes very good.

>AnJ might be my gateway into enjoying more retro stuff.
Glad to hear, for me I think it was Yawara. Not in terms of liking an older show but rather dedicating the time properly to watching it and getting through it in around 2 months. Once I got to Joe, it was a cakewalk to watch and enjoy, whereas if I tried to watch it before then I doubt I would've made it past the first 10 episodes.

>Also first post on wapchan.
Glad to have you, keep up the posts my guy.

Has anyone else noticed repeated motifs and ideas in Dezaki’s works?

I’m not just talking about stuff like the postcard memories, but he also seems to recycle ideas a lot. He likes putting trains and planes in his settings, he always likes having scenes that are near rivers, the ocean or some body of water, he likes referencing Rikishi’s finger point alot, he does frequent callbacks to his other works (Oniisama e is filled with Ace Wo Nerae references, for instance), he’s had several series that involve addiction to either alcohol or drugs, several characters in his works get serious illnesses, and so on.

It’s funny how even without analysing the artstyle and directoral techniques, you can tell if something is made by Dezaki just because he loves using certain tropes.

>>1018
In what order should I watch Aim for Ace?
Aim for Ace (1973) or new Aim for Ace (1978)? I know the sequel for both is Aim for Ace 2.

>>1031
1978 doesn't have a translation iirc. A shame since it looks really good compared to the look of the 73 version. Hell, I don't even know the 1978 version is uploaded anywhere.

>>1032
Oh, I see. That makes it simple then.
I really digged the artstyle

Just finished Black Jack fucking amazing. To be honest I will always pegged Dezaki as a hack fraud (maybe too strong a word) who we pretend it was good despite some very obvious amateurish qualities to his work. For example the sound design where he would just play the main theme at random intervals in the episode and it gets really annoying after a while, or the awkward dramatic timings with an episode having multiple climaxes and awkawrd cuts and scenes not flowing together well.
I tolerated it in Joe because of the source material and Cobra is light hearted fun, but it was hard to stomach on shows that tried to be serious.

But I am glad to report that there's none of that in Black Jack, this is Dezaki perfected, everything at the utmost professional standard, excellent drama with a great sense of pacing and every scene plays together well, all accompanied by some of the best art you'll see in anime. Highly recommend for all Dezaki fans

I figure this is a decent thread for this. I finished Joe 2 the other day, and I've been thinking about it a bit. What do you think of the ending? At first I was a bit disappointed, but after thinking about it, it's probably the best possible ending.

>>1035
It's the only way it could've ended for me.

Hey hey hey blues....

>>1035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLzj22NnvVg

Was hoping to see Joe find completion, but honestly I think it was the only completion a character like him could get. It's kind of sad I think after Rikishi's death he was suicidal and remained that way.