Tuned in to Doujin Culture!

>>1338
>WTF is happening
Take downs coincide with AI criticism, it's ZUN's way of censoring critics, Touhou doesn't want fans who won't toe the slop line, for anyone with a heart or a brain, it's time to give up on Touhou

>>1339
>slop
This word should be added to the filters. I don't like low-effort AI either and "slop" isn't even a bad description for it, but now it's an overused shitposting phrase that's been applied to everything under the sun, and it fits in here about as well as frogs. Ironically enough, the usage of it makes one's post into what could be called slop. Calling out something for being lazy and low-quality with the laziest and lowest-quality language possible.
>for anyone with a heart or a brain, it's time to give up on Touhou
Stop canvassing. There's already a thread for this shit.

>>1340
Yeah yeah, filter all criticism of ZUN, as if he hasn't just betrayed every single creative that's backed him for decades, as if he didn't wait for this moment to finally hunt music preservers, you couldn't be a more obvious AI shill. Mind you, the only reason I used that word is because knee grrr and a whole bunch of words appropriate for the situation are toddlerized. If you actually hated AI dogshit you'd cut off any cretin spamming it instead of deflecting off slop terminology.

No reason why the other thread even enables AI shills, if you're going to the trouble of banning AI pics you might as well ban the people who can't stop themselves jerking it off and wishing artists death.

>>1341
>Yeah yeah, filter all criticism of ZUN
I did not say that. What should be filtered are 4chan/twitter/internet-ism buzzwords and the level of dialogue they encourage.
>the only reason I used that word is because knee grrr and a whole bunch of words appropriate for the situation are toddlerized.
Toddlerized? They're already the equivalent of playground insults. You could speak your piece and move on, but you're set on calling ZUN and me and whoever else dumdumpeepeepoopooheads. "Shill" is another good one. It's appropriate for those other sites and you may see them as appropriate for the situation, but it isn't appropriate for wap.

People who are against it can and will give up on Touhou. They are free to try and persuade others. But for God's sake do it with some dignity, especially if it has to be on this space invader dating forum dammit.

I'm off to get my IN lunatic clear now. Don't worry, I won't "shill" for "slop" anymore.

It is humbling to see how much the opinion on Touhou has changed in just a few weeks. No matter the longevity of the series, the consistent lenient behavior towards fanworks (provided they follow the few existing rules), or the public image ZUN tries to sell, a few fuck-ups can really make anyone fall from grace.
And NO, I am not an AI "shill". In fact, I believe nothing the AI creates will ever be art. I don't like how all of a sudden uploading music seems to be against the rules either, with no prior heads up, after so many fucking years where that was the norm and nobody bat an eye.
So I am not deflecting. And yes, right now I believe ZUN has fucked up. I want him to explain himself, and not act all lofty when his actions are causing such a shit show. Then whoever wanted could form an actual opinion with the actual reality of the situation. I just find it ridiculous how a few mistakes after, and a few posts into the thread, ZUN's entire existence seems to be called into question, with somebody saying he "may be friends with the guy from 2ch" without even knowing who that guy is (Hiroyuki, jfc), and that everyone who has known Touhou for more than 5 minutes and isn't a secondary (i.e., can speak Japanese) wouldn't even call into question that because it is braindead obvious they are in good terms. Or someone else saying now Touhou actually isn't a one-man game, when ZUN has actually put into the credits the few times he has used help from other people (e.g. th19), and doesn't make fucking sense because there's no way in hell anybody who had participated in such a phenomenon as Touhou wouldn't have done everything posible on this Earth to demand compensation.
Obviously, actual discussion is going to be poluted by people who will just shout their opinion without any knowledge on the matter, simply because they think their fringe, retarded opinion, has now an opportunity to foster.

>>1389
I think you're strongly underestimating the severity of AI incorporation. ZUN could have been convicted of sexual assault or child pornography and the backlash would not be as bad (knowing the average Touhou fan). It represents the cessation of human efforts to tyranny. The cessation of a medium to a handful of corporations that have been antagonistic to all demographics. The cessation of creatives having any ownership of their creations. The cessation of visibility and communication to a deluge of irrelevant drivel after years of already being punished by biased algorithms.

It very strongly affects many people and ZUN sold himself as a cottage little guy, so it represents this entire doujin scene being closed off into an AI only shithole like so many other mediums. What good could come from this? Will conventions have to let in AI spammers? Will Touhou forums have to let in AI spammers? Will contests have to let in AI spammers? Of course! It'd be hypocritical when the king is naked. You take one look at the turdstorm AI spammers have left the areas they're free to reign, and you basically see what ZUN has rewarded the creatives that supported him with.

Frankly there's very little that can invalidate 30 years of work, but destroying every Touhou outlet and a significant portion of the doujin scene for the people who supported you for years would do it.

>>1390
Anon, I dislike AI as strongly as you do, and my previous post accounts for it, but I do think you are overreacting in a climate ripe for overreaction.
I am glad I am not the only one who thinks AI is a disgrace for art. I have already argued in that other site why I believe that to be the case. But that left aside, I don't think you are actually evaluating the situation.
Touhou 20 is not the product of AI. It still is a creation of ZUN, at least until confirmed otherwise. He did not ask Adobe AI to "make th20 for me lol". He probably has used it in moderation, so maybe 5%, 10%, or 20% tops (I seriously hope not more than that) is the result of AI. ZUN most probably has thought out the story, designed the characters, composed the music and made most if not all of the programming himself, and then cut corners for some of the smaller parts he probably found tedious.
Not that I like it. But getting some help from an AI is not the same as AI generators (I refuse to ever call them artists)'s spawns of the devil that little by little plague the web. He is not welcoming purely AI generated fanart, at least not until he says so himself.
ZUN's opinion on this should also be taken in account. From what I know (and this one I haven't actually heard from him myself, but only read from other anons), ZUN seems to have a rather lenient stance on AI. His boomer glasses reflect to him a similar situation that what must have happened when he was experimenting with computers. Yet he was able to create his oeuvre with them, so for him creators should take advantage of that shiny, new tool to create something original and exciting, like he did in his time. It is clear he didn't choose the AI he used lightly either, since Adobe AI at least advertises itself as "respectful of artists" and only "enhancing their imagination" (you can look up their website).
Now, I think there are more abstract reasons why AI cannot make art, but ZUN probably isn't taking them into account. What I want to say, I guess, is that you can think ZUN has fucked up, but the Internet drama around this, as it tends to happen in imageboards, has sometimes been bombastic, painting ZUN in the bleakest of lights possible, instead of arguing about the reality of the "incident" (if I may say so).

>>1338
Is this really a big deal? I could see if this affected gameplay videos, but people don't use youtube as their primary way of listening to music, do they?

>>1338
Next time you make an outrage bait "touhou is over" thread for the sixth? seventh? time, please bother to spell check your subject…
Hard to not see this as anything more than concern trolling.

>>1403
I can see why it's so contentious. Youtube has been the primary gateway for westerners to get into Touhou for as long as it existed on the platform. How many times have you seen it said where one's first exposure was a video of Night of Nights, UN Owen Was Her, and Bad Apple? It's ingrained in fandom culture, such that Ruw doing his thing to make way for the official OST to be published to youtube music feels like a stab in the back to the fans who paved the way here.
The main issue comes from the complacency of both sides. The western fandom has been allowed to by and large do as it pleased for twenty years since the guidelines on fancontent have been left greatly unenforced. Touhou has always been this mystical thing in the west as ZUN never had any presence there to claim it, but at a glacial pace he's moving onto large platforms such as Steam and now Youtube. If I hazard a guess I'd say music rips will be taken down in waves as more and more of the music makes its way there officially.
>I could see if this affected gameplay videos
The danger to that is from Youtube's end with their hit and miss detection programs. Since the OST for 19-20 is on Youtube by the actual owners of the music, Youtube's system can trigger copyright automatically, such as the case with mtb's enoko video. We'll have to see how it all shakes out in the long run.
>but people don't use youtube as their primary way of listening to music, do they?
You'd be surprised at the amount of norms who do this. I used to do this before I realized I could just download ZUN's entire collection to my phone and let a local music player app handle it. Music discovery is another factor which Youtube is good for overall, which feeds back into the earlier point as a gateway into Touhou.